Radio Detox Episode 1: Ainsley Costello

I'm excited to introduce the first episode of my new Value-4-Value podcast, Radio Detox! It's only available in the valueverse.

There's no better way to become the architect of your own destiny than by taking personal responsibility with Bitcoin + Nostr. This podcast will detox you off fiat money & music. Listen as the artists take the reigns of their careers. Artists like Ainsley Costello are harnessing the power of Bitcoin + Nostr to get their music to places it's not been before as they reap benefits that long haven't been available in the music industry.

As a former radio pro, this hits me in the gut. It's about time we start fixing the music industry. LFG! 🚀

Transcript:

Heather Larson [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the first episode of Radio Detox, the value for value podcast to detox you from the mainstream and get you on the road to musical and monetary recovery. Hi. I'm your host, Heather Larson. I spent 21 years in radio with a front row seat to a lot of shows and radio and records dysfunction in the industry. So let's do something completely different. In this value for value podcast, I don't have to do a bunch of bullshit to satisfy an FCC requirement. There are no ads, just music and bringing the artist to you the way it always should have been. We're bringing the origin purple revolution to you.

Heather Larson [00:00:35]:
Interviews on this podcast will center on how's your detox from the mainstream going, what's value for value done for you lately, and what's your Bitcoin story? Radio detox covers the culture that is springing up and what matters in the orange and purple world. On this first show, I'm going to be talking with Ainsley Costello that was made by Ainsley, Jester, and Emily Deranged. While you're listening, zap the tracks. Send Bitcoin to the artists. I'm using RSS Blue, which embraces podcasting 2.0 so you can zap stats, send bitcoin, boost the songs, whatever you wanna call it, that goes directly to these artists whether you're listening on Podverse, fountain, podcast guru, true fans, or Ellen Beets. We're making it possible for you to pay the artist directly while you listen. I'm not gonna release this and have a go to Apple Music, etcetera, as you're about to find out from Ainsley directly on this podcast, she earns a lot more money from embracing the value first than she does having tracks on the legacy platforms. So let's get into it.

Heather Larson [00:01:44]:
Since I keep mentioning Ainsley, our guest of honor today, and Jester, let's kick it off with 1 of my favorite value for value tracks by these 2, the 2 ships Jester remix.

Ainsley Costello [00:02:08]:
Can't fight an inevitability even lovers, but then it is friends. And we can't go back again.

Heather Larson [00:06:06]:
Since we're kicking things off talking about the Bitcoin song contest and the conference in Nashville, let me just name drop my buddy, q w, who is 1 of the winners on the track. He contributed a couple lines to the song, and he's the main driver of our Noster Phoenix community, always greasing palms, shaking hands, and kissing babies around here at the local meetups. It's got a few words to say to help me kick off Radio Detox.

QW [00:06:32]:
You are tuning into Radio Detox with host Heather Larson, special guest, Ainsley Costello. Value for value will go as far as all contributors take it. Ainsley Costello is at the forefront of this peaceful revolution. Ainsley is an artist who sees what's wrong in the music industry and is deciding to do something about it. Support Ainsley. Support value for value. We are all instruments in this revolution. Peace and love, q w.

Heather Larson [00:06:59]:
And now, let's get into Ainsley Costello.

Ainsley Costello [00:07:01]:
Hi. I'm Ainsley Costello. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so honored that I'm the first guest of your new podcast.

Heather Larson [00:07:08]:
You are the first 1. Okay. Because it was like, who could I possibly interview? And you have so much going on right now, and that's the thing. Because you've got a new album coming out, you're going to do a bunch of shows coming up, especially a certain show that we all love in Nashville. And, you know, we're gonna hear the brand new 2024 Bitcoin song alchemy. So people pleaser is the first single, the lead single. It's out. Was that first released exclusively to waveling? Am I remembering that correctly?

Ainsley Costello [00:07:39]:
Yes. It was. It was really exciting because, so we we released People Pleaser exclusively in the Valueverse, a week before it came out on all of the traditional streaming platforms because and I I really wanted to put an emphasis on Wavelike and Fountain, because they've just been so wonderful to me in uplifting me and my music ever since I got into this space. What is it? It's July 1st as we're recording this. It was July of last year that I got into Bitcoin, and value for value, and lightning, and all this. And so, we knew that when it was to start releasing music, it was like, alright. Let's send it let's send it over to our guys, and they're gonna take care of us. And that's exactly what happened.

Heather Larson [00:08:16]:
So explain to me July 2023. What what happened? You you went somewhere. Where did you go? How did it start?

Ainsley Costello [00:08:26]:
Absolutely. So in July of 2023, it was almost kind of like, now that, like, I've been in this space for about a year and I kinda understand, like, all the inner machinations of this whole world, I honestly kinda felt like July of last year was, like, the tipping point. So for the past 2 or 3 years, my dad has been a big, like, kind of Bitcoin crypto enthusiast. He'd been following along with it, and whenever he would kind of, like, tell me and my mom about his findings, we'd be like, alright, Jim. Like, cool. Glad you're having fun. But you know what? We're gonna let you do you on this 1. And then, so who'da thunk, there's this place in Nashville called Bitcoin Park, and it's right down by Music Row, where if you're familiar with Nashville, Music Row is where all of the labels are, It's where all the publishing houses are.

Ainsley Costello [00:09:12]:
It's like this very historic, very magical place when you visit Nashville for the first time. And Bitcoin Park is like right by Music Row, and it's actually, if I'm remembering this correctly, I think it's actually the the old Florida Georgia Line houses where Florida Georgia Line wrote and recorded a few of their first records, which is really cool. So my dad went to the lightning summit, because there was a lightning summit happening there that week, and that's where he, went to this demo of Wave Lake. We all know and love Wave Lake. That's where he met Sam and Michael. And then, he came home and he was like, Haynesley, maybe you should wanna come and check this out. And me being an indie artist, having kind of been pulling from everything that's been coming out the past few years and just adding it to the roster, I'm like, why not? Let's go check it out. Worst thing that happens is I don't think it's the right fit, and I don't use it.

Ainsley Costello [00:10:01]:
I don't do anything with it. But that was not the case at all. So, we went to the wave like demo. I think they were having a couple that week. And I went with my mom, and my dad was there because he was also the punchline of the joke is, my dad's day job is he's, he's a mortgage officer, so the the joke is he went to Bitcoin Park to sell a bunch of, like, young, hip kids some mortgages, and he got sold on bitcoin. So he told me and my mom to come down to the Wavelike Summit or the Wavelike Demo. We went down. We sat in for an hour and a half or so.

Ainsley Costello [00:10:37]:
And it was just so cool. And then we went home. We thought about it, and we were like, Why not? Like, why wouldn't I put a song up and see what happens? So then, very long story short, so I put up this song called Cherry on Top, which had come out 6 months or a year prior or something like that. It was the only song I had up on Wave Lake. It kind of blows up in this lightning bitcoin community. Adam Curry puts it on his podcast, which then, like, this whole other smorgasbord of podcasts starts to put Cherry on Top on, Cherry on Top becomes the first song on wave like to hit a 1000000 sats, and the rest is history. Now I'm just, like, living my life in this Bitcoin world, and it's really fun and cool.

Heather Larson [00:11:20]:
Right. Because I think Adam Curry boostagram ball came out about a year ago. Right? It would have been summer 2023. I remember using that first episode and going, this is amazing. How do I do that? So fast forward to today, I'm doing that. So my question is, as far as, like, putting your music on wave like and and getting sats zapped to you or getting, you know, boost on boost to gram ball, are you seeing a difference in the amount of money? And I'm referring to, like, money as in Bitcoin. Like, you're earning Bitcoin in the value verse. Is that better than what you're doing on Apple Music, Spotify, Tidal, etcetera?

Ainsley Costello [00:11:59]:
Absolutely. Without a doubt. And I will not even hesitate on saying that. So kind of the main, I guess, sound bite that I've been going around, kinda telling my friends when they've been asking, like, Ainsley, what's this whole Bitcoin thing? Is this something that I should be looking into? So in 5 years on the traditional streaming platform, Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, you name it. I've only made about 7 or $800 off in total off of my entire catalog.

Heather Larson [00:12:26]:
7 or 8 $300.

Ainsley Costello [00:12:28]:
Yeah. In 5 years. And it's not even another thing that I think not everyone understands is that's not an upfront check for 7 or 8 $100. That comes to you over time, over like 70 different checks of like 20¢, so it's not even like when you get that check from ASCAP mail, it's not like, oh, I'm going to go reward myself with a Starbucks. It's like, cool, this is going in my bank account for who knows how long. So in about 5 years, I've only made about $7 or $800 in traditional streaming royalties. And in about a year on Bitcoin and lightning enabled web apps, Sometimes I get nervous talking about this because I don't wanna come off sounding ghost, but so much of the Bitcoin ethos is like, you should get paid. You should be getting paid for the art that you are putting out into the world, and it's value for value.

Ainsley Costello [00:13:20]:
If I give you something of value, you give me something of value. So it's taken a little bit of like a leap of faith to kind of get over that hump of talking about money, but here's here's the main statistic. 5 years in traditional streaming platforms, $700. A year on Bitcoin, over $10, 000.

Heather Larson [00:13:38]:
Wow. So you you toil away for 5 years with your music catalog.

Ainsley Costello [00:13:43]:
Mhmm.

Heather Larson [00:13:43]:
Okay. I know you've written a lot of songs. How big is that music catalog again?

Ainsley Costello [00:13:47]:
So So of the songs that I've released, there's there's that 25 songs out on the traditional streaming platforms, but I've written over 300 songs.

Heather Larson [00:13:55]:
Okay. Now let's take into account the traditional streaming platforms. There are several of them. So you have 25 songs on several different platforms, so that's hitting audiences of I don't know how many each. Mhmm. And then you you come into the Bitcoin value verse, and you you put your music out. And there's there's not as many songs I've noticed on Wave Lake as there are on the traditional legacy streaming services. So it's not the same amount of songs.

Heather Larson [00:14:22]:
It's fewer songs Mhmm. And fewer, less time, obviously. So you so 1 year and $10, 000 versus $700 in 5 years of work. Yeah. Okay. So let's do the part where we talk about Ainsley's favorite tracks here because Ainsley's got some good songs. Okay. So the the first 1 on your list

Ainsley Costello [00:14:42]:
Mhmm.

Heather Larson [00:14:42]:
Is Joe Martin Doesn't Rain in LA, and I hadn't heard that 1 yet.

Ainsley Costello [00:14:47]:
That song is that, you know, you do music professionally for a long time, and like there aren't a lot of songs that like really phase you. I listened to that song and I was like, damn it. Why didn't I think of that? That is such a good idea. And then also, I just I love his performance on that, too. I think the kind of prosody of, like, just being a guy with a guitar and being like, I love this girl, and I don't want her to go, and I'm kinda, like, being kinda sarcastic and witty about it. Oh, I just think that song is so great.

Joe Martin [00:15:24]:
She's a flower, not quite ready to move. She needs water to lay down It's not my place to say. As it is, and they litter that town. But if you

Heather Larson [00:18:57]:
That's amazing. So did we turn your mom into a Bitcoiner in the last year?

Ainsley Costello [00:19:01]:
She's been orange pilled to the max. It's just, I swear, like, some days, it's like I come home, and she's talking about

Ainsley Costello [00:19:08]:
it more than I am. Oh,

Heather Larson [00:19:11]:
alright. Because I wondered about that. I'm like, so what was it you're at the lightning summit last summer. You're getting the wave like demo, and you're just kinda is was it you're saying it's like a why not thing, but it was there a moment there where you're like, this seems like, I'm getting my butt kicked over here in this arena, so let me just hop on over. Like, what was there 1 thing that kind of turned on the light for you about Bitcoin and Lightning and the value verse?

Ainsley Costello [00:19:35]:
That's exactly what it was, that that mentality of, like, I'm doing on paper, in the traditional industry, I am doing everything right. I'm posting on TikTok 3 times a day, I'm putting out a song every 6 weeks trying to feed the algorithm, trying to feed the beast, and it's not working. And since getting into this space, I've had a lot of people in the traditional industry come up to me and tell you, Ainsley, there's no way you can win in the traditional music industry. It's all paid for. Everything is promotional. You have to pay for a TikTok video to go viral. You have to pay for a song to get on 1 of the big Spotify and Apple Music editorial playlists. And so I think really the tipping point for me was having done all that work in the traditional world, and then starting to come over here, already seeing a way bigger reward for my work in even in 3 or 4 months in here.

Ainsley Costello [00:20:29]:
Like, I was already seeing more of a, more value than I was there. But the big tipping point for me was having a lot of industry people come up to me who are also like Bitcoin Maxis, saying like, you are doing everything right over there. This system is rigged against independent artists, and there is not a way for independent artists to break through the noise unless you have. So, here's another funny statistic. I had a friend, a couple years ago who was like, Yeah, it takes about $1, 000, 000 to break an artist, 1.5 if you're a woman. And so unless you have $1, 000, 000, 1.5 if you're a woman, you're not gonna get anywhere in the traditional music industry, and it sucks, and it's a hard pill to swallow because it's like, what am I doing? Like, you always come back and think of it like, what am I doing wrong? I'm not writing the good enough songs. I'm not posting enough on TikTok. I'm not good enough at x, y, and z, when that's not the case.

Ainsley Costello [00:21:22]:
And so coming over into this space and people validating, like, no, you are an okay enough songwriter. You are like a good enough performer. So, like, there's been a lot of confidence kind of restored in my own abilities coming over here.

Heather Larson [00:21:36]:
You know, that is a great point of that. You can be the best artist. You can be the best singer. You can be the best songwriter, and you're putting out work that you've put your heart into, and and you are no slouch. I mean, I've I've read your story. You know, you're a Berkeley grad, you know, and I've met your dad, and and and your dad has amazing musical knowledge, obviously. Did he teach you music growing up? Was it just kind of like by osmosis, like you just learned from dad?

Ainsley Costello [00:22:03]:
Oh, yeah. Like, there there is a big part of it. Like, I grew up. My dad was a musician. He went to LA in the nineties to do the same thing that I'm doing here. And it was also like a mix of like also being like, I want to take singing lessons. I want to take guitar lessons. But definitely my dad was 1 of my biggest influences.

Ainsley Costello [00:22:18]:
Like, there were times where I'd be like, A, like figuring out how to play guitar, and I'd hand him the guitar book, like, he needed to like, know what the chords looked like because he's been playing guitar for 30 years, but I handed him the book and I was like, dad, quiz me on guitar chords. He'd be like, okay. Play me a g. Cool. Play me a c. Cool.

Heather Larson [00:22:34]:
So what's so great about Chris Nichols' sweat?

Ainsley Costello [00:22:37]:
Oh, my gosh. The feel on that song, the groove, it's like, again, like, you listen to however many songs a day you listen to on Spotify, Apple Music, and so many of these songs are the same. I feel like that song by Chris is just singular. It's like I couldn't, when I was thinking about it I was like I can't even really find something to compare this to, and it's just, it's so different, and it's so fun, and it's it's a different kind of fun than, like, a, like a Party in the USA by Miley Cyrus. I don't know why that's the first thing I thought of, but it's like they they give you that same feeling, but like this is so much more, like, there are so many interesting little things to this song, and I feel like I find something new in that song whenever I listen to it. It's just so fantastic.

Joe Martin [00:23:24]:
Hey, mama. I'm going in a bar. What you're going in a bar for, boy? I wanna dance, she sweats for me.

Heather Larson [00:26:00]:
That's great. So you have this amazing experience. You're absolutely killing it. You're a Berkeley grad, which is amazing too. And you you've been doing this your whole life, and and it's a struggle to get in the music industry. And we we all know, and I I said this for years doing country radio, how frustrating it was to look at the music we were playing. Not 1 female, unless it's Carrie Underwood, is on on the playlist. And, you know, believe it or not, the every radio station I ever worked for, we had to sign a payola plugola statement that we we wouldn't take any bribes from the record labels, you know, to get those songs on.

Heather Larson [00:26:39]:
But we all know that that's not true. Yeah. We all know that, it's kind of a I'll scratch your back. You scratch my back. You guys need a party bus? Oh, yeah. We're gonna pay for that. Now this is not happening anymore because the labels don't have the money anymore. Well, I'm talking about 20 years ago.

Heather Larson [00:26:54]:
Oh, you guys need a party bus? You know, a record label rep coming to town. Hey. What do you guys want me to bring you from LA? And and you can imagine what that was. And and then we would have, like, we'd put on a concert with some little no name artists because we got a bunch of t shirts and banners paid for, you know, by a record label. That's exactly how that's always worked. And that's exactly why we had songs, you know, like the Baja men who let the dogs out. That's exactly how that sort of thing happened. Of course, that was an earworm.

Heather Larson [00:27:26]:
Yes. So things go viral. But that's how the game used to be played. And now I think with the social media and the FOMO and the there's always somebody putting on a show on social media, and it's like, oh, is their life really like that? Like, we see this person

Ainsley Costello [00:27:40]:
on stage. Not like

Heather Larson [00:27:42]:
that. Yeah. Do do you see the audience in some of these shots? Is there an audience, or are they just on a sound stage, or, you know, is it AI? I wanna just friends

Ainsley Costello [00:27:52]:
up front and, like, they have their hands up in the air so it looks like it's a packed room. Like, nothing is real, nothing is organic or authentic, and maybe I'm just jaded, but it's my opinion.

Heather Larson [00:28:03]:
No. I'm jaded too. You're jaded at a much younger age than I was. I was still but, you know, when I was your age here here comes when I was your age. My party was funded by the record labels. You know, that was how things were then. I don't know how it is now because thank God I got out of the business about 5 years ago. You can't win and you do kind of you internalize.

Heather Larson [00:28:24]:
I think you tell yourself a story of like, oh, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm not talented enough, you know, maybe this, that, or the other. And it just it becomes this part, I think, a bigger picture of what fiat does to an artist, and that you actually now, without the trappings of a record label to say, oh, well, we're gonna put this treatment on a music video. You're gonna look like this. We're gonna market you this way. You cannot argue this and you have no voice here. You actually have been given back your voice completely. You have total artistic control, don't you?

Ainsley Costello [00:28:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's the wonderful thing about it.

Heather Larson [00:29:02]:
This this is everything is your choice. Mhmm. This this is a businesswoman here I'm talking to. This is great. Let's do another song from Ainsley's song list, Anna Treacle, Lovely Tangles. Now that's 1 I've heard before for sure. So why did this make your list?

Ainsley Costello [00:29:19]:
Oh my gosh. I so a couple weeks ago, I was going through, Fountain. We all know and love Fountain. Fountain asked me to make, an Ainsley's favorites playlist, so they could highlight it and be like, alright. If you're new to the value verse, here's 1 of our value artists and some of her favorite songs. And, I had already known some of the songs that I wanted to put in there, but I was just tapping through some stuff, and that little guitar riff came on, that I love, again, there are so many cool little mesh things that are meshed together in that song, like the acoustic folky picking in that song, and then almost there's this little hip hop almost beat that comes in a little bit later in that song, and it's just it's a very cool, just like syntax between those couple of different elements. And it's again, like I was raised by a purist musician, and so when I find an interesting song that has more to it than just like 2 chords, I'm like

Joe Martin [00:31:05]:
a fetish in the hopes that all the pretty things they say you knew will make you

Heather Larson [00:33:50]:
This is your debut album coming out this year. Right?

Ainsley Costello [00:33:53]:
Yes. And

Ainsley Costello [00:33:54]:
it's called x list. Yes.

Heather Larson [00:33:56]:
And it's September 6th? Mhmm.

Ainsley Costello [00:33:58]:
Yep. Okay.

Heather Larson [00:33:59]:
So I'm gonna have to count down the days till we get x list. So tell me about the album.

Ainsley Costello [00:34:05]:
Well, I am so excited for this album. I've been working on this album for about I'm thinking about what I would have written the first song. I wrote this album for about 2 years, which is, I feel like, a pretty standard timeline for start to finish for an album. But this is an album that I really I kinda just wrote my heart out into it. I think it's funny, I was kinda just reflecting on this this morning. The big messages on this album were really inspired by I kinda had a little bit of When I really started digging into it early last year, so January, February of last year, I kinda had this weird come to Jesus moment where I was like, you know what? I really hate a lot of the messages that society pushes on young women, young queer folks to, you have to you have to This is society talking, not me. You have to be in a relationship to be a whole and happy and fulfilled human being. Being.

Ainsley Costello [00:34:59]:
No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't like that. Nope, nope, nope. And, you know, I had always known that those kinds of messages were important to me. A couple years ago, I put out a song called Someone, Someone, which is really my first, like, I really, really relate with this message, and I wanted to figure out what would happen if I tapped into this message a little bit more. So that's really kind of the main things that I hope people take away from this album. There's only it's about it's an 8 song record. There's only 2, like, love and heartbreak adjacent songs on there.

Ainsley Costello [00:35:29]:
The other 6 are all about, like, you can change your mind if if anything goes too far. If it's, like, in a romantic sense, if, like, you're buying a house and you realize you don't like it anymore, you can change your mind at that. X list, the title track is all about why does everybody tell me that being X list is a bad thing? Why shouldn't I just enjoy this while I'm in this? Because I know being ex less isn't gonna be a thing that lasts forever, and let's just have fun with it while it lasts. And so there's a lot of messages, kind of circling that main 1 of, like, you don't have to be in a relationship

Heather Larson [00:36:15]:
the staid, stale messages of yesteryear.

Ainsley Costello [00:36:19]:
Yes. Absolutely. And don't

Heather Larson [00:36:21]:
be a people pleaser either. Don't

Ainsley Costello [00:36:23]:
do that. Yep. Exactly. And I think people pleaser, that was, 1 of the first songs that we did for that. Even though that it's it's a little bit of a different message than, like, stay Axliss, and just have fun. Like, don't stay Axliss forever, but it's even though it's a little bit of a different message, they all kind of come back to this very 1.1 moment in time where it's like, do what you want, and do what makes you happy, and that's really kind of, I think, the main message that I hope people take away.

Ainsley Costello [00:36:58]:
If it was what you liked, I'd do it. Even if I wasn't into it. I'm not proud of it. No more mistakes, no more excuses. I'm so scared of this. We'll get hit me because of it.

Heather Larson [00:39:10]:
Yeah. Be young. Have fun. You're not gonna be exes forever. Yeah. Exactly. Have exes.

Ainsley Costello [00:39:14]:
You will have exes.

Heather Larson [00:39:15]:
Hopefully not too many, though.

Ainsley Costello [00:39:17]:
Yeah. For sure.

Heather Larson [00:39:18]:
But, you know, if you get enough, that's another album.

Ainsley Costello [00:39:21]:
Yes. Absolutely. For sure. Like, and something that people always ask me, they're like, Angelie, are you just like never going to write a love and heartbreak song? I'm like, no. 1st and foremost, I'm going to write a love and heartbreak song if I have a good idea for that, and so, 1st and foremost, that's always where my priority is gonna lie, if there's a good idea.

Heather Larson [00:39:38]:
It's okay. So, people pleaser, how autobiographical is people pleaser? How big of a people pleaser were you, Ainsley?

Ainsley Costello [00:39:45]:
It's very autobiographical. It's kinda cliche, but like I really didn't realize that I was a people pleaser until I started going to therapy. We got about like 3 sessions in, and I was like, oh, that's what that is. Okay.

Heather Larson [00:40:01]:
That's okay. I've I've been there. Been there. Done that. That's I I love the song, and it's it's a great song. You're not a people pleaser, and you just wanna sing along, get it stuck in your head, definitely an earworm. Yeah. People pleasers on rotation in this house for sure.

Ainsley Costello [00:40:15]:
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Heather Larson [00:40:17]:
Benny Jeans, why do you do this to me? That's a great song. Tell me about your love

Ainsley Costello [00:40:22]:
for that 1. 0, my gosh. That song, I feel like I wanna, like, just, like, strut down the street and, like, sing that song into a hairbrush. Because that's it's just so full of attitude and being like, why? Do you do this? Tell me. Like, it's just oh, I just love songs that really embody, an energy like that, and I just I think it's so energetic and so exciting to listen to.

Ainsley Costello [00:44:06]:
That's 1

Heather Larson [00:44:06]:
of my kitchen dance songs for sure.

Ainsley Costello [00:44:08]:
Oh, yeah.

Heather Larson [00:44:09]:
So Adam Kirkeup, be at home. That that was I heard that song and I was like, woah. Where did that come from? That's going on my repeat today. I'm gonna just play that over and over again and just just be that way. You tell me about your thoughts on that 1.

Ainsley Costello [00:44:23]:
Absolutely. I'm a very, like I love picking songs and making very specific mood boards for them, or making playlists that are so just like stupidly specific. That song feels like it should be on a playlist where it's like you're living in New York City, it's rainy, you're like 24, you're like sitting out on the fire escape with hot chocolate just like kind of longingly staring out at the city being like, I love being home, and maybe there's a cute boy with you, maybe there's not. Who's to say? But I just I love the almost like That's what it feels like a little snow globe to me, how you can just, he really takes you into that world of what being at home with someone you love looks like. And I just I think that's such a magical quality to have as a a

Ainsley Costello [00:45:12]:
songwriter.

Speaker F [00:45:17]:
Winter came early today, already late for your train. I, in love, I'll bring up the play.

Joe Martin [00:45:35]:
Don't know the time till it's flown.

Speaker F [00:45:41]:
It's too many years since we've known, a day with nothing on. Draw by your chair. Draw my fingers through your head. Let's be at home. Let's be at home. Let the world keep the adrenaline. Let's turn off our phones for the day. All that they're asking can wait.

Speaker F [00:46:48]:
There's nothing outside but the rain. Let's not wish we could go back. Feeling

Joe Martin [00:47:14]:
Draw the blinds.

Speaker F [00:47:16]:
Draw me in. Draw your name into my skin. Let's be at home. Let's be at home. Let the world keep thundering home. Let's be at home. Time. And if this ceiling should collapse, the alarm could be okay And I don't know what the road will ask.

Speaker F [00:48:31]:
I'll put my shoulder to the task of me. Can you at home. So draw a line in the sand. Draw me right into your hands. Let's be at home. Let's be at home. Wherever this path unfolds, Let's be at home. Let the world keep the hydrant on.

Speaker F [00:49:34]:
Let's be at home.

Heather Larson [00:49:46]:
It's such a calming song. Yeah. So you've got shows coming up from July 19th through August 5th. Most important show, of course, being with Joe Martin at Just Loud at the Vinyl Lounge Thursday, July 25th at the Bitcoin conference. Now you can watch that live on Toonster, which I'm not gonna be in Nashville. I'm gonna have to watch live on Toonster. So in the wave like app, it says that there are gonna be some guests there. I also see the higher low is on the bill.

Heather Larson [00:50:13]:
Is there anyone else we can talk about who might be guesting during the show at the vinyl lounge?

Ainsley Costello [00:50:19]:
During the show at the Vinyl Lounge. I mean, because we have a couple of different things going on that week, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a surprise appearance or 2 from, some of the friends who I wrote the Bitcoin song with Alchemy, which we haven't we haven't talked about yet. But wouldn't be surprised if they make an appearance, and maybe we perform that song together somewhere, sometime over that week. Perform that song together somewhere sometime over that week. But it's just I'm so excited about it, and I'm so excited to meet all of these people in person for the first time. I'm so excited to meet Joe in person for the first time, and, Just Loud, JL. I got to do a show with him in Minneapolis, the week before Christmas, which was so much fun. So I'm so excited for round 2 of that.

Ainsley Costello [00:50:57]:
But, yeah, like, Satoshi Rakimoto and the Higher Low, and just all these other like minded people. I'm just I think it's gonna be a great couple of shows, and I'm really excited for it.

Heather Larson [00:51:06]:
It's gonna be a lot of fun. It's it's a it's a first. And then buying tickets in the wave like app to the show is a first, and alchemy this since you mentioned the song alchemy, that is a first. Okay. So how did this work? I kind of I watched it from afar and and I know my friend q w submitted some song lyrics and and his 1. So he's got a couple lines lines, and there are a bunch of people with different lines. And I personally I am not that kind of musician, so I don't know how I would do that. So explain to me how you and Emily and Jester how you guys pulled this together with just kind of like disparate lyrics from several different people, and then you're writing a song, and, like, you don't really have to bring the lyrics to it.

Heather Larson [00:51:47]:
How did that change the process for you?

Ainsley Costello [00:51:49]:
Absolutely. It was you know, when Emily and I sat down to do the lyrics for it, we were very surprised at how easy it was. So kind of the the timeline of things is like we had the idea for the Bitcoin song contest, we had people submit, and then, we knew that Jester was gonna be a part of it because Jester had done this incredibly cool remix of 1 of my songs, 2 Ships, and I was like, that, that's the guy right there. And so, he was on board immediately, and he sent over a couple of tracks. And I I was listening through them. I think it was like early May or so that this whole process was like really starting to get started. He sent over these tracks and I heard the 1 that we ended up using, and I was like, this is so cool. We have to do something over this.

Ainsley Costello [00:52:30]:
So, Jester sent off the track, and then once the submission deadline had closed, Emily and I, we scheduled a time to, like, just come, like, she came over to the house, and we just we did our thing, like, we write songs together all the time, and we're also just like really good friends. And so I think it helped that we already had a foundation of knowing how to write with each other and how to work with each other. So she came over 1 night, and we just kind of looked through this huge list of all these song lyrics, all these ideas, and I was I didn't think the submissions were gonna be, like, unworkable, but I was kinda like, okay, at the very least, this is gonna be tricky. Like, I've never really written like this, how is this gonna work? But we were looking through it, and there were so many cool, just words, turns of phrases, lyrics. Like, there are some lines in there that we used word for word. And so we were looking at it, and honestly, the song really just fell together. I think we put it together in maybe an hour or so. So, yeah.

Ainsley Costello [00:53:31]:
Oh, my gosh. It went so fast, and we looked at each other when we were done, and we were like, is that it? Are we done? That was way easier than we thought it was gonna be. But yeah, it was so cool, and so there were things that we took kind of loose inspiration from. There were things that we took word for word, and we kinda just we put it all together. Songwriting is, even if you don't have this whole submission thing being a part of it, songwriting is like putting a puzzle together. And so, almost in some ways, it was easier because we didn't have to come up with every single line from scratch. It was kind of just like, Okay, this is really cool. Let's just change the last word of this to make it rhyme.

Ainsley Costello [00:54:09]:
And it was just it was so much fun, and I I was really surprised with how the song turns out. Like, I really I love it. It's a really fun and cool song, and I'm excited to perform it.

Ainsley Costello [00:55:10]:
Don't need permission to follow my truth. Watch as they glisten the stars above my roof.

Heather Larson [00:57:35]:
So would you say are you're like a nostril and Bitcoin maxi now? Absolutely. Absolutely. So now to grow as an artist, though, you do have to be I think it kinda do you feel like you still have to be everywhere? You still have to be on the legacy platforms as far as, like, streaming and social media and and and wherever else do do you feel you have to be kinda like all over still?

Ainsley Costello [00:57:58]:
Yeah. I mean, I think it it differs for every artist in this space. There are some people who are like, I am exclusively in the Bitcoin Nostra world, and awesome. I think that's great. For me, I'm still very much learning how to walk in in 2 worlds at once. It feels like the the dividing barrier is like right in the middle, and I'm kinda just like, There are times where like, I'm I think a lot of my focus right now is on this Bitcoin noster world, but, you know, when people pleaser comes back or comes out, it's kinda like I just have to pop my head into this. Other will be like, hi, cool, we good, awesome. You guys know how to handle yourselves back over here.

Ainsley Costello [00:58:31]:
So I would say the emphasis for me still really is on this Bitcoin master space, but it's not a 1 or the other. It's not a black and white situation, which I think a lot of people like to make it out to be black and white, being like, why aren't you just in Bitcoin? Why aren't you just in the traditional space? And I don't think that's how really No successful artist has become successful by just doing 1 thing. It's like you have your hands in a 1000000 different pots, and you're just trying to see you're throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. And if something sticks in both worlds, great. If something sticks in 1, great. But I think you have to walk in both worlds to really get the full value of being an artist, for sure.

Heather Larson [00:59:14]:
It's not that I can't listen to you on Apple Music. Okay? Because I can, but I prefer to jump over to Wave Lake to listen to you because, you know, it's now interactive because there's the little pulse tab, and I can see what everybody else is zapping. And it's also it's like, well, if I'm gonna listen to Ainsley on Wave Lake, I can zap her there and I should be zapping her there. You know? I should be making sure that when I love somebody's song on wave lake that they get a zap. And if I'm listening to it on repeat, it's there's gonna be more zaps. Right? You know? So and I don't know exactly how the technical side of it works, but it's it's I know when people pleaser came out, it was like, oh, people pleaser is out. Okay. So if I send her a fat zap, that's gonna help.

Heather Larson [00:59:52]:
Yes. Absolutely. Because I think there's still a competitive nerd in me that's, like, I want the song. I like to go charting to the top. You know, that's that's the thing that I wanna do. So we gotta send, like, the fat zaps, and it's like, yeah. I I want you on my playlist that I make in Apple Music, but I also I want you to have the benefit. And I think that when we started talking, you mentioned that it was like, someone gives you value, you gotta give value back.

Heather Larson [01:00:13]:
And it's it's a it's a mindset shift to where, like, instead of I don't know what I spend every month zapping things on on wave lake. I know what I spend, having Apple Music, you know, having a subscription there. It's, I don't know, it's like $10. So it's part of the bigger subscription, but it's like, well, how much do I spend on zaps? And then, you know, if I want to zap an artist on Toonster, you know, I don't want to just send them 21 sets. Like, I wanna send a fat zap to somebody who's on stage performing on the Internet. For me, like, I wanna be a part of that, where you're just not gonna get that on a legacy platform. But for me already, it's 2 different experiences.

Ainsley Costello [01:00:49]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think 1 thing that, you know, might not be on everyone's minds right now is, like, people I think people can get a little peeved when they hear I'm still kind of walking in both worlds, but I think what we're doing in the Bitcoin space, in some way, shape, or form, or another, and I think it already is, but it's going to affect the traditional music industry. Who knows how long it's gonna be, if it's next month, if it's 5 years, 10 years, whatever. The music industry is gonna have to make some fundamental changes if it wants to survive because at the rate it's going right now, it it won't be able to to survive. About a year or so ago, I saw this article, I think it was on Billboard or something, where there were like 4 or 5 different, like major label reps, and they were like, like, where are all the breakout artists? Like, the last artist, the last breakout artists were Olivia Rodrigo and Ice Spice, and it's like I was so peeved at that because I was like it is by your own design that you're not getting any breakout artists. It's because you're forcing us to play to the TikTok algorithm. You're forcing us to be content creators when we are songwriters.

Ainsley Costello [01:01:52]:
We are artists. This, like, little thing drives me crazy, and I don't wanna be on it any more than I have to. And so I think with what is happening over here in the Bitcoin, Nostar, lightning space, it's it's absolutely going to impact. And so I think if we have people who are walking in both worlds who can kind of bring over, like, good qualities of the traditional music industry over here, and then maybe we can bring over some good qualities of Bitcoin and Nostril. Like, it's all gonna work seamlessly eventually, but it's like you can't just look at it black and white because that's never gonna solve anything. Right.

Heather Larson [01:02:25]:
And the music should speak for itself. You know, your music is great. Mhmm. You're a great artist. I appreciate that. And I shouldn't have to watch you, you know, bouncing a a coke bottle with a Mentos in it on TikTok to have that show up in in in my feed, which I'm not on TikTok. I I am very Good. Don't go on.

Heather Larson [01:02:44]:
You know, like gosh. But, yeah, I I you shouldn't have to be doing dumb circus things in order to get your music out there. And I I think that cheapens

Ainsley Costello [01:02:52]:
the whole thing. Absolutely. And I totally agree the the music should speak for itself. And also, like, I will be the first person to admit that, like, I am inherently getting more value over here in the Bitcoin Nostra space than I am over here, and I'm I'm just so grateful for the way that this community has really uplifted me and supported me in a way that this world just never has. And so it's y'all really know how to make a girl feel special, like, actually have some self worth come back after years of this traditional industry telling me like, yeah, it's you. You're the problem. It's you. Hi.

Ainsley Costello [01:03:28]:
You're the problem. It's you.

Heather Larson [01:03:29]:
Okay. I'm gonna be direct now. I've got a couple friends. They did not make it in Nashville. Okay? Because you're you're in Nashville. Correct? That's where you moved there. You were, like, dedicated enough to this. You moved to Nashville.

Heather Larson [01:03:40]:
You're all in. Now my friends, a couple of them, that it ate them alive though, that they did not make it in Nashville. And I say this as someone who's worked in the industry as a former addiction professional, you know, I'm a sober person today, that things can go south pretty quickly.

Ainsley Costello [01:03:54]:
Yeah.

Heather Larson [01:03:55]:
And it's my hope that, you know, that we're the way that we're all working to change the music industry will make it more healthy for you and for future artists. You're kind of like the first. You're a trailblazer. And I know you have very good people around you because I've met those people. So how do you stay grounded in a place like Nashville?

Ainsley Costello [01:04:13]:
Yeah. I mean, I'll I'll also be the first to admit that Nashville is a hard place. I mean, we kinda joked about it earlier. It's a joke, but it's also kinda not. Like, I just turned 20 in April and I've been here for about 5 years. I already feel jaded by Nashville. Oh, everybody wants me to say I love Nashville, but it's hard. You're Oh, everybody wants me to say I love Nashville, but it's hard.

Ainsley Costello [01:04:37]:
You're not alone if you feel like that because this is a hard town. 1 of my all time favorite songs that like really, really kinda conveys that message is a song called This Town is Killing Me by 1 of my favorite artists, Caitlin Smith. She's just an incredible writer. Please go check her out. But she wrote that song called This Town is Killing Me, and I had heard it before I even moved to Nashville. And then, you know, we get through COVID, and you get through starting to work the machine and doing the rights, and then you have this 1 night where This How is Killing Me comes on, and you're like, Oh,

Ainsley Costello [01:05:06]:
my God, I get it.

Ainsley Costello [01:05:09]:
But, I think for me, staying grounded in Nashville, I think the big thing for me is not forcing myself to try to be friends with people who don't really serve my purpose. I think there's a lot of artists in Nashville who I mean, we all come to Nashville for the same thing. We all wanna have a career in music. To to what degree that it differs, some people are like, I want superstardom Taylor Swift fame. Some people are like, I just wanna make a living doing house shows, but the common goal is all the same. We all wanna have a career in music. You know, there are some people, in Nashville who, you know, I've I've had a couple of people who like I've kind of been myself to. I've been like, Hi, what's up? I'm Ainsley.

Ainsley Costello [01:05:56]:
I'm so glad you're here. Let's be friends. And then they're kinda just like, they don't really wanna be friends with you. They wanna use your connections for their own personal gain, and I'm all about that. I truly believe that we all rise together, but I think having a good having a good bullshit meter, and sorry, mom, if I just swore, having a good bullshit meter is like really, really important because that's just gonna drain you so fast. I've had people like that where I've been constantly giving, and giving, and giving, and giving advice on how to book a show, advice on what in ears you're using, or trying to bring people into your circle so they don't feel less alone, and when that happens and when they're not very grateful, or they don't, you know, whatever term you wanna use. It's draining, and it doesn't feel good, and so I think I've I've been in Nashville for long enough where like I have a small circle, but I have a really solid circle. And I think that's the biggest thing that I would say.

Ainsley Costello [01:06:55]:
Like just don't don't spend time with people who aren't going to fulfill you. And you're gonna know after like Even if your brain doesn't know, your heart and your soul is gonna feel after that first right, that first time having coffee, you're gonna be like, this person does not fulfill anything that I need to be fulfilled in my life. So I would just say that if you think having a small circle is bad, it's not. I would so much rather have a small circle of people who keep me grounded, who believe in me, who, like, want to actively see me succeed, than like a huge circle with, like, everyone, and it's just like nobody nobody cares about each other here. Like, what's going on? So, that was a big, long rant and tangent, but I think that's the biggest thing for me. Having a small but really solid circle, that's kind of been my my lifeline over the past year or so.

Heather Larson [01:07:44]:
It's true. That's to me, that is the right answer because anytime I've seen somebody fail, it's either because they drank their own Kool Aid.

Ainsley Costello [01:07:53]:
Mhmm.

Heather Larson [01:07:54]:
That's a big 1, the ego. And then the other thing is, yeah, there's too many people around, too many hanging on, too many yes men, too many people to say, yeah. That's great. Let's do that. You know, there always has to be someone close enough to you to say, no. That's a terrible idea, and you shouldn't do that, and you should check yourself. Like, you have to have those people around you who are in that small circle, small enough to say, yo. Like, you're not cool right now.

Heather Larson [01:08:18]:
Like Yeah. You know, get back on track whereas when you have too many people around you, you've you've got all they they just wanna ride the coattails.

Speaker F [01:08:25]:
So, you

Heather Larson [01:08:25]:
know, keep keeping it small from from the get go I think is is brilliant. And for the fans, what are you getting out of Nashville that you just could not get anywhere else? Like if if you went to LA or if you went to New York or some other kind of like music centric place, what does Nashville have for you that nothing else does?

Ainsley Costello [01:08:47]:
It's funny when it this almost kind of reminds me of a conversation I just had with 1 of my best friends, a couple weeks ago about, she's in college right now, and I mean, I would still be in college if I wasn't, like, weird and didn't have a weird life path and story, but I'll get back to why that reminds me of that in a second. But almost like, it's a little counterintuitive, but the thing, 1 of the big things that I feel like Nashville has is that you're 8 hours every which way from so many of the major cities in the country. I really don't play in Nashville that often. I use this as my home base, and so then I'm going 12 hours up to New York, and then we're going to North Carolina, and then we're going to Texas. When I lived in Seattle, you couldn't do that because Mhmm. The closest kind of major, major city was LA, and that's not even close. And so there is a great community here, and I think there is a lot to be said for kind of going out and doing the rounds and paying your dues in Nashville. But I think it kind of goes back to what we were just talking about of like, knowing what served your purpose.

Ainsley Costello [01:09:43]:
And like me, I am allowed full band, like, hi, what's up, I'm here kind of artist, and not really like the, I'm gonna go out and just play the same 2 original cover songs around every night. Which again, there's nothing wrong with that. If that serves your purpose as an artist, cool. Do it. That's great. But knowing what is important to you and your journey is really important, but the reason that this reminds me of, a conversation that I just had with 1 of my friends is like, we were talking about it and she really wants to study abroad in Australia. And she was like, yeah, it's kind of weird. I'm really only staying at this school so I can leave because of their abroad program.

Ainsley Costello [01:10:20]:
And I was like, that is like how I feel with Nashville. It's like, I'm staying here so that I can go 8 hours every which way, and I know that might sound kinda bad, but I promise it's not, like, that's a huge that's a big reason why I moved to Nashville is, like, because I've always known that I'm a touring artist, and I wanna go out, and I wanna be with everyone. So

Heather Larson [01:10:39]:
So would you say that you're a full time musician, like a full time artist?

Ainsley Costello [01:10:44]:
I would. Yeah. I'm really lucky to say that because, I know that there are a lot of other artists in Nashville who have survival jobs, and I think that's great. I'm just I'm really lucky that, like, I'm 20. I still live at home, I have parents who support me to the ends of the earth. And so I'm very lucky and I'm very privileged to say that I would consider myself a full time musician. Yeah.

Heather Larson [01:11:07]:
But would you say that if not for Bitcoin, Nasr, Wave Lake, etcetera?

Ainsley Costello [01:11:12]:
You know, I think I can say it with a little bit more gusto. I was saying it, before I kind of got into this whole space, but I was kinda like, yeah, I'm a full time musician, and people were like, alright, cool, like, we know what that entails, like, you make about 20¢ every 2 months. Cool. Good luck supporting yourself on that. And so I think now that, like, I'm actually at the beginning of, like, hopefully making a living for myself, which would be just lovely, it's I think 1 of the big things 1 of my goals is like, I'd love to just buy myself a house 1 day. Like, just I think, you know, you go into the into the music industry with these big expectations. You're like, I'm gonna headline this place, and I'm gonna be big enough to do this and that and that, and then, like, this traditional industry beats you down enough, and you're, like, man, I just, like, love to live. Maybe get a

Ainsley Costello [01:12:00]:
coffee every once in a while. Right. Yeah. It's so real, though. Mhmm.

Heather Larson [01:12:04]:
That is so and it it it's like I I think you when when you start out, you've got the vision board of, like, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna play Glastonbury. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. And and it's like that's not the important stuff. The important thing is is obviously your art. And the important thing is to maybe have a house and a retirement fund and to, you know, not, have your life go off track, basically, which I think is very easy in that business. So kudos to you. Just out the gate, 20 years old, just just killing it, really.

Heather Larson [01:12:38]:
And do do you ever wonder where you would be if you hadn't gone to the lightning summit last summer?

Ainsley Costello [01:12:44]:
I think I'd still be crying myself to sleep every night, hitting my head against a wall being like, what am I doing wrong? Why am I not good enough? And you know, that's I I think for all artists we all kind of have that there's this weird dichotomy that happens, like we have that deep seated belief that like, I suck, why does anyone listen to me? And then you're also like, no, but like I'm good at what I do. I I have belief that I'm good at what I do, and so there's that weird kind of dichotomy that you're always like toggling back and forth between, but I think because I've been in this this Bitcoin space, for about a year now, like, that empowerment level has kinda come up, and so it feels a little bit like the scales aren't like, the the I suck thing isn't as big anymore, but I think that definitely would have been I'd still struggling with that way more than I am now. Not to say that I still don't struggle with that because I think every artist struggles with that. Doesn't matter if you're me or Beyonce. Right? Like Mhmm. If if anyone who says that they don't struggle with that is lying. Like, let's just be real.

Heather Larson [01:13:43]:
You expect to be the front person.

Ainsley Costello [01:13:44]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Like it it you have I think to have the level of confidence that you have to have to go out and do something like that, you really there's also that other side of you that's like, the little goblin that's like, but you're not as good as you think you are. I think I would just if I was still just in the traditional music industry, I'd just be, like, what it's like that meme of Harry Styles. What are we doing? What are we doing?

Heather Larson [01:14:12]:
Being frustrated is what we're doing.

Ainsley Costello [01:14:13]:
Yes.

Heather Larson [01:14:13]:
Well, it's funny. I don't know if I told you the the this podcast is gonna be called Radio Detox. You know, me being an old radio person and and getting into the value verse and getting into the purple and orange world. And and this is this is exactly what this is about is detoxing off of the old way, the old way of thinking, the old way of working, the old way of getting your stuff out there, the old way of getting paid, the old way of how you self reflect on your art, and if it's finding an audience, and if you're good enough, pretty enough, talented enough, like, am am I, you know, fill in the blank enough to get the following on TikTok so I get the the label deal. Like, do you care at this point if you even get a label deal, or do is that still something that's a goal?

Ainsley Costello [01:14:55]:
You know, if if a label opportunity presented itself, it would be something I would entertain, but I don't even know if I would say yes to it. But, you know, there are a lot of people who would, I think, like it if I was just like, no, say no to that, just like do this over here, but again, it's like it's not as black and white as everyone thinks it is. If that kind of thing presented itself, of course, I would entertain it. Of course, I would sleep on it and think about it. But, like, in an ideal world, I'd want this to be the main thing, and maybe there's elements from this other world that come in. So, yeah. I guess I guess that's the answer to that.

Heather Larson [01:15:33]:
Yeah. I'll tell you I'll tell you what, if some label came up to you, they would they would have to come up with something they've never done before. You know?

Ainsley Costello [01:15:41]:
Exactly. And, like, as we've been in this world, like, in this new Bitcoin world, my team and I, we've been thinking, like, well, if we had leverage, cause that's the big word that all the labels like to use, if we have leverage, what would we wanna negotiate for if a major label deal presented itself? It's like, alright. We're gonna do a different deal. If I if you wanna sign me and I wanna be signed with you, this has to be a part of it. There's just no way forward that doesn't involve this for me. So, yeah. Again, it's blending the 2 worlds. It's not black and white.

Ainsley Costello [01:16:13]:
It's like if we get a label deal, let's let's see what what else we can bring to the table, and how much they would agree to before we say yes or no concretely to anything.

Heather Larson [01:16:22]:
Mhmm. So I see you on Nostra. You're taking that that next step on Nostra, which is sharing video. I saw you the other day You're asking for help. How to figure out how do I post a video on Nostr? And people are like, use Nostr build and then and then you did and you used it, I think, to debut the people pleaser video on r and I and I love that you thought of us Nostra nerds like that. It's not like you you didn't get on Nostra to say, hey, you guys, I've hosted the video elsewhere. It was like, hey, let me people pleaser video out to you on Nostra. So, like, how overall would you say your Nostra experience is so far?

Ainsley Costello [01:16:57]:
My Noster experience has just been everything that Instagram, TikTok, Twitter has not been. It's so like, the word I keep going back to is fulfilling, but it's so gratifying because it goes back to the ethos of value for value. In Instagram and Facebook, sure, you get a like, but if Instagram goes away tomorrow, it's like, what are you going to retain from that? If Noster goes away tomorrow, I still have all those zaps that are in my wallet, and I know that I still people decided to give me this little, a zap or a fat zap or whatever it is. They decided to tell me that they appreciated what I was giving when, like, in the traditional, like, just everything, Spotify, Apple Music, Instagram, TikTok. Over here, it feels like you are just shouting into the void, being like, Hi, I have something. Will you listen to me, please? And then you go over here, and it's like, Oh, my gosh, Ainsley, you have a new song. Let us love it, and listen to it, and give you some value because we understand that you're giving us value. It's so gratifying, and just like the love that I received on that video has just been out of this world.

Heather Larson [01:18:08]:
Send fat zaps. Now, is there anything that you would ask the Nostra devs for, you know, feature wise? Add this to the protocol for Ainsley. What would it be?

Ainsley Costello [01:18:17]:
Oh my gosh. I mean, we've been we've had so many of these conversations over the past year that, like, I feel like there's so many things. I'm like, I don't even know how to keep track track of it anymore, but, we've been talking a lot with the guys over at, at Coracle, which is a really cool site being like, is there a way that we could almost make, like, if you think of any major artist in the traditional world, if you think of Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Harry Styles, or whatever, like, they've all got like their, like, Taylor Nation, HSHQ, like, their kind of big, like, fan base run accounts. I wonder if there's a way that we could have a whole, almost like MySpace esque chat room for, like, what would the Ainsley fan club look like, because, like, there's you can't there's a lot going on. You can't do anything by yourself, and I will be the first person to admit that. I have a lot of people helping me, like, doing this crazy thing that I'm doing, but I think that's kind of the next step that we're looking at. Like, how can we, like, really solidify, like, just, what's the word I'm looking for? The, the

Heather Larson [01:19:17]:
fan experience or

Ainsley Costello [01:19:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. The fan experience. Like, how can we make sure that everybody kinda comes together and we're all kinda like congregating and doing our thing. And so then when my friend Emily, who I did the Bitcoin song with, comes over, she can do that for her fan base. And then Arreas comes over and she can do that. And then Abby Newar comes over. There there is so much that we're doing.

Ainsley Costello [01:19:36]:
It's just all uncharted territory. We're like, how can we make this work for me, and then after I'm gone, how can we make this work for other people? It's like

Heather Larson [01:19:45]:
I think it's cool because I I think, you know, like, you and I have sent nostril notes back and forth, and, like, I've done that with Sarah Jade and Jester and and tone record, like, different artists who are on nostril. And it's like, I don't have this experience if I follow this person or this artist. So it may be some of them like a like Chris Nichols. I'll hit him up on Instagram and and likewise. And it's like you have this experience with these indie artists that you're listening to and they're they're on Wave Lake. They're maybe getting into the Valuers. We got we gotta get Chris Nichols on on on Noster. And they're just kinda like it's it's kinda like we've asked you to be on so many things already, and now now we gotta be on Noster too.

Heather Larson [01:20:22]:
You know? So it's I I think people don't realize it. Like, right now getting into this space, you get to actually, you know, hit up your favorite artist and be like, hey. I love your track. Here's a zap, and I love this, and I can tell you what I think of it. And we can kind of, like, commiserate or whatever. And I think you and I have joked around about my kitchen dancing habits. Yeah. Like, when do you get to do that with other people? And it was when we did culture shock here in in Phoenix, you know, like, in this space, I'm still 1 of the only women, and and Sarah Jade walks in that morning, and she's like, Heather.

Heather Larson [01:20:52]:
She gives me a big hug. It's like, okay. We have 3 women now because it was like it was like Santa's wife, q w's wife, me, and Sarah Jane. And and it was like, this is the this is the time to get into this space because you're gonna be able to, I don't know, meet so many more people and have experiences with artists that you probably wouldn't have otherwise. So

Ainsley Costello [01:21:11]:
Absolutely. I think we're in this very, like, Myspace esque, like, beginning of the Internet time where, like, nobody really knew what was going on, but it was exciting and people could tell that like change is coming, and exciting change, whatever it is. And I think even if you have like an artist who you really love who only has 20, 50, 000 followers on Instagram or whatever, they're probably not gonna even respond to you even if they're not a massive A A level artist. Where like you look over at at, Joe, Joe Martin, he's a great example on nostril. He's got 11, 12, 13 something, 13, 000 followers or something like that, and he's like all over the map. He's like, I'm here, I'm ready to talk, I'm ready to chat. What's up, everyone? Like, there's this community aspect that you don't get in the traditional industry that's really exciting.

Heather Larson [01:22:01]:
Yeah. You actually get to know people, and then and see that artists are real people and not just somebody on stage or in a video. So so if our friend Michael Rhee is listening, let's ask him for some new let's have some fun here, Michael. We would like some new features on Wave Lake. I would like a shuffle button. What about you, Ainsley? What would you like to be on wave link?

Ainsley Costello [01:22:22]:
Oh, shuffle button. That's a really great idea. I don't know why I didn't think of that. I love the shuffle button. On wave link, I would love I don't I don't remember if this has this feature or not, because 1 thing about me, I so respect everybody who is so techie. I am so not techie. I'm just like write songs about my feelings, go analog type of person, so I don't remember if Wave, like, has this feature or not, but do they have like a, like a favorite? Like, can you just like heart it? Almost like

Heather Larson [01:22:50]:
Yeah.

Ainsley Costello [01:22:51]:
Oh, they do.

Heather Larson [01:22:51]:
You can heart it and then it goes to, like, your list of songs. So anything that you heart gets fed into this 1 list. And so that's that's why we need my shuffle button.

Ainsley Costello [01:22:59]:
Yes. Absolutely. Maybe, like, maybe there's a way to like a like a listening party thing where, like, you could listen to a song at the same time as some of your friends on wave. Oh, like

Heather Larson [01:23:08]:
when alchemy comes out, and then, you know, we just we all wanna listen to it the day it comes out and kinda, like, maybe someday there'll be like a video element where, like, reacts video where my my face goes, you know, like, oh, there's there's q w's lyric. You know, like Absolutely.

Ainsley Costello [01:23:23]:
Yeah. I mean, maybe a cool thing on wave length could be like having the video feature on it too. Like if this if a song has a corresponding video, like there's a page for the song, and then there's a page for the video, or you can smush them together. Who knows?

Heather Larson [01:23:36]:
There we go. Dude, we're living in the future already. And then my favorite tracks that I'm putting on, first of all, have you heard I America from Longy?

Ainsley Costello [01:23:46]:
Yes. Oh, my gosh. I completely yes. I love that song.

Heather Larson [01:27:41]:
And my other 1, I think I have a mental list of quintessential Bitcoin Nostra kind of songs. Right? So I've got kind of a list, but I think the 1, the number 1 bitcoin if you want to get into the space and understand the bitcoin nostril, you know, cult that we're in, I think it's Joe Martin, The Jetsons.

Ainsley Costello [01:28:02]:
Oh, yes. Oh, I love that song. What a great idea that he had for marketing. He's just man, I'm excited to meet him in person and just pick his brain. Like, there's just he just seems like that kinda guy, like, there's a 1, 000, 000 things just happening in there, like, all at once.

Joe Martin [01:28:25]:
You're talking about the future, but what do you say? Is it an ocean of color growing exponentially? With the Jetsons. I wanna shoot past the stars. I wanna take you to a place you've

Ainsley Costello [01:29:41]:
where energy is flowing

Joe Martin [01:29:44]:
through machines that are alone. You've never been before.

Heather Larson [01:31:59]:
Oh, yeah. And and and he comes off as so calm as well. Like, he's just so chill and and he comes out with, you know, rhymes in purple and orange. I'm like, oh, that song. Like, that's just that's that's like that could be our, you know, that may be rising free. You know, like, those are our quintessential, you know, Bitcoin Nostra orange and purple value verse kind of songs where it's like Yeah.

Ainsley Costello [01:32:19]:
Absolutely. I think

Heather Larson [01:32:20]:
he captured that. But, yeah, we could talk about music marketing all day. Mhmm. We could really get into that, but we won't do that on the podcast. So

Ainsley Costello [01:32:28]:
Girl, I've got a degree in that. We can talk all you want.

Heather Larson [01:32:31]:
Next next podcast. We're gonna we're gonna follow this up at some point with, the success of Ainsley Costello and how she's now teaching, other artists, like, how to get into the value. Like, you'll you'll be mentoring, other I feel and and I'm gonna go on record saying this. I feel that you'll be mentoring other artists at some point on, like, what is this? Why get into decentralized music? Why get into WAV? Like, why get in why do a show on Tunestr? Why do, you know, why do all of these things? And and how do you do all these things? And I'm sure by the time we get to that point, there'll be probably, like, a right and wrong way to do these things.

Ainsley Costello [01:33:09]:
Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, I would love to do that. I it kinda goes back to what I said earlier. I'm a firm believer that we all rise together, and already, like, I'm just I'm not, like, a cagey person at all. If somebody asks me a question, I'll be, like, okay. Here's an itemized list of everything that I know so that you know it, too. But already the friends who I have who are, like, asking me about this, I'm like, alright.

Ainsley Costello [01:33:30]:
Let's sit down and have a 3 hour conversation about this. Go get a snack and use the bathroom because we're gonna be here for a while.

Heather Larson [01:33:36]:
Absolutely. Love you, Ainsley. Love the music. Counting the days until the album comes out. A lot of people are counting the days until the show in Nashville. Wish I could be there. Will be watching and zapping big fat zaps on Tunestr. That's gonna be amazing.

Heather Larson [01:33:54]:
I'm so sorry I can't be in the room with you, to actually, like, be front row and screaming at the stage.

Ainsley Costello [01:34:00]:
I love it. Your kitchen dance floor, that is good enough for me. Oh, I have to ask you. What else what songs are on your kitchen dance playlist? I must know.

Heather Larson [01:34:07]:
My kitchen dance play oh my god. There there's gotta be, a love like this before. What is that? Who is the artist on that old classic song? That's that's the quintessential like because you got a line dance in the kitchen. Okay. So you gotta get some some good, like, Motown R and B to get you line dancing. Okay? So that's, like, 1 1 sector of that, and I think there's got to be, like, some hip hop too. Totally. Okay.

Heather Larson [01:34:30]:
Because you got if you're in your kitchen, okay, I mean, kitchen dancing is serious because this this is

Ainsley Costello [01:34:35]:
Serious business.

Heather Larson [01:34:37]:
It changes your mood. It changes your whole day, your whole night. Right? So you need to have what would essentially be your karaoke song. Okay. So mine would be win by j rock. Okay. Because middle aged white girl is not gonna know all the words to j rock win. Okay.

Heather Larson [01:34:53]:
So, like, you gotta have a little bit of, like, the Motown. You gotta have a little hip hop and then you got you gotta have something that, like, you gotta have some music with with some balls. Okay? So you gotta be able to do your air guitar too. And, like, maybe Not every day is like that, but you gotta you gotta do it every day. If you don't dance and and and make a dumbass of yourself in your kitchen, like, why are you even alive? You know? So, like, whenever you're having a bad day, you've

Ainsley Costello [01:35:18]:
got a You've got a gym top jewelry out there.

Heather Larson [01:35:22]:
Kitchen dance. And then also, like, McDonald's value menu song by Richard Greaser. Okay. Because, you know, I think we all miss cheap food. Okay. So like we're going to go through the wave like playlist as well. So yeah, there's there's a constant playlist going. I'm always adding to the playlist and taking away from the playlist.

Heather Larson [01:35:39]:
So it's an ever evolving I make a new playlist every year. It's usually like 16 hours long. It's ridiculous. But at the end of the year, we'll have my 20 24 defined by my playlist. I'm I'm that disgusting. Like, very John Cusack kind of moment there.

Ainsley Costello [01:35:54]:
I love it. That's so wonderful. That's great.

Heather Larson [01:35:57]:
Well, thank you, Ainsley. You're kicking off radio detox. Thank you so much. Everything, actually. I mean, you kinda kicked off.

Ainsley Costello [01:36:04]:
That is so nice to come.

Heather Larson [01:36:06]:
Everything from, the value verse, wave lake, toonster. Who knows what comes next? You know, but but we're loving it. We're loving where it goes. Let's let's get everybody to know that x list x list x maybe that's the second album. No. X list, September 6th. And everybody, if you're not in Nashville, you got to tune in on Toonster and Zap. And if you're in Nashville, you still have to zap from the audience.

Heather Larson [01:36:33]:
Okay. Yes. You have to do that, and show your love for our artists in a way that we never could do before and all these legacy walled off icky, you know, things that yeah. I can't help it. It is what it is, but we're we're fixing it.

Ainsley Costello [01:36:48]:
Yes. We're doing our best, baby.